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Path: cantaloupe.srv.cs.cmu.edu!crabapple.srv.cs.cmu.edu!fs7.ece.cmu.edu!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!usc!news.service.uci.edu!orion.oac.uci.edu!tclock From: tclock@orion.oac.uci.edu (Tim Clock) Subject: Re: ISLAM BORDERS vs Israeli borders Nntp-Posting-Host: orion.oac.uci.edu Message-ID: <2BC09184.14190@news.service.uci.edu> Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast Organization: University of California, Irvine Date: 5 Apr 93 20:07:32 GMT References: <2BBC9B34.13517@news.service.uci.edu> <4805@bimacs.BITNET> In article ilyess@ECE.Concordia.CA (Ilyess Bdira) writes: >In article <4805@bimacs.BITNET> ehrlich@bimacs.BITNET (Gideon Ehrlich) writes: >> >>What are the borders the Islamic world dreams about ?? > >The Islamic world dreams of being the whole planet, but not by kicking >the current inhabitant out, we rather deam of the day everybody converts. >If Jews had the same dream, I would not feel threatened a bit. There certainly are muslims who *do not* believe that their dream of a global Islamic community should be achieved through force. There are, however, others (and, they are often far more visible/vocal than the former) who *do* accept the establishment of global Islam through force. I would *not* feel threatened by those only accepting or pursuing "Islamicization" through peaceful means, nor by Jews advocating the same approach. Those advocating force as a means of expanding their side's power are certainly a threat. To Palestinians, Israel is doing just that; maintaining its dominance of those *outside* its own "group". If I am told that "I am not one of you" but you then impose your control on me, damn right you are a threat. If I am a member of a non-muslim minority *inside* the Islamic world and *actively did not* accept my "minority" status, I *would also certainly* see Islam's domination as having been acheived, and maintained, through the powerful coercive force all majorities wield over minorities within their ranks. >> >>Islamic readers, I am waiting to your honest answer. > >I want also a honest answer from Zionists for the following questions: I am not a zionist, but do feel that *both* Jewish and Palestinian nationalist desires need, at this juncture, to be accepted in some way. > >1)why do jews who don't even believe in God (as is the case with many >of the founders of secular zionism) have a right in Palestine more >than the inhabitants of Palestine, just because God gave you the land? > *** For the same reason that some muslims believe it is proper and righteous for Islam to be spread by force upon those who DO NOT WANT THAT. >2)Why do most of them speak of the west bank as theirs while most of >the inhabitants are not Jews and do not want to be part of Israel? [I refer to the "most" you also refer to] Because they are scared, and feel very threatened, as well feeling that this area *is* to some degree part of their belief/religion/heritage/ identity/etc. I too strongly object to those that justify Israeli "rule" of those who DO NOT WANT THAT. The "occupied territories" are not Israel's to control, to keep, or to dominate. > Tim
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